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	<title>Comments on: Zend Framework, where do you want to go tomorrow?</title>
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	<link>http://www.beyondcoding.com/2008/07/05/zend-framework-where-do-you-want-to-go-tomorrow/</link>
	<description>Follow us on Twitter: @fredwu and @scotti3g</description>
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		<title>By: Websites tagged "zendframework" on Postsaver</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondcoding.com/2008/07/05/zend-framework-where-do-you-want-to-go-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-3225</link>
		<dc:creator>Websites tagged "zendframework" on Postsaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 06:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thislab.com/?p=41#comment-3225</guid>
		<description>[...] Dave Marshall’s Blog: Zend Framework and the Twitter API saved by highschoolmusicgal2009-01-04 - Zend Framework, where do you want to go tomorrow? saved by clilyaperc2009-01-04 - Ajax 101: A Simple Example of Using Ajax with the Zend Framework [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dave Marshall’s Blog: Zend Framework and the Twitter API saved by highschoolmusicgal2009-01-04 &#8211; Zend Framework, where do you want to go tomorrow? saved by clilyaperc2009-01-04 &#8211; Ajax 101: A Simple Example of Using Ajax with the Zend Framework [...]</p>
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		<title>By: K1LLeR</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondcoding.com/2008/07/05/zend-framework-where-do-you-want-to-go-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-242</link>
		<dc:creator>K1LLeR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thislab.com/?p=41#comment-242</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m working with ZF Lucene componenet for couple months and believe me that mostly speed issues are because of wrong indexing or wrong queries. It is like a SQL - if you write inapprioprate query you can get results in minutes...

Nex thing is ZF it is a framework to use in your project, not a ready to go product which can produce blog in 10 minutes. It is more component library.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m working with ZF Lucene componenet for couple months and believe me that mostly speed issues are because of wrong indexing or wrong queries. It is like a SQL &#8211; if you write inapprioprate query you can get results in minutes&#8230;</p>
<p>Nex thing is ZF it is a framework to use in your project, not a ready to go product which can produce blog in 10 minutes. It is more component library.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Fred Wu&#8217;s Blog: Zend Framework, where do you want to go tomorrow? &#124; Development Blog With Code Updates : Developercast.com</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondcoding.com/2008/07/05/zend-framework-where-do-you-want-to-go-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-241</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Wu&#8217;s Blog: Zend Framework, where do you want to go tomorrow? &#124; Development Blog With Code Updates : Developercast.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thislab.com/?p=41#comment-241</guid>
		<description>[...] Wu recently posted some of his thoughts on using the Zend Framework as a developer in other frameworks looking to expand his knowledge.   [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Wu recently posted some of his thoughts on using the Zend Framework as a developer in other frameworks looking to expand his knowledge.   [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Angel&#8217;s Test Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Fred Wu&#8217;s Blog: Zend Framework, where do you want to go tomorrow?</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondcoding.com/2008/07/05/zend-framework-where-do-you-want-to-go-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-240</link>
		<dc:creator>Angel&#8217;s Test Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Fred Wu&#8217;s Blog: Zend Framework, where do you want to go tomorrow?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 03:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thislab.com/?p=41#comment-240</guid>
		<description>[...] Wu recently posted some of his thoughts on using the Zend Framework as a developer in other frameworks looking to expand his knowledge.   [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Wu recently posted some of his thoughts on using the Zend Framework as a developer in other frameworks looking to expand his knowledge.   [...]</p>
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		<title>By: K</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondcoding.com/2008/07/05/zend-framework-where-do-you-want-to-go-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-239</link>
		<dc:creator>K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thislab.com/?p=41#comment-239</guid>
		<description>Interesting post Fred, you&#039;ve identified many of the same issues I did - I was going to use ZF for a personal project but just grew frustrated.

Many of these issues will eventually be resolved, but the biggest and perhaps most frustrating is the namespacing - I don&#039;t see how this can be fixed/changed without breaking functionality for a lot of people who already use it.

Cudos to Will for follow all these posts, I think it demostrates his commitment to the ZF.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post Fred, you&#8217;ve identified many of the same issues I did &#8211; I was going to use ZF for a personal project but just grew frustrated.</p>
<p>Many of these issues will eventually be resolved, but the biggest and perhaps most frustrating is the namespacing &#8211; I don&#8217;t see how this can be fixed/changed without breaking functionality for a lot of people who already use it.</p>
<p>Cudos to Will for follow all these posts, I think it demostrates his commitment to the ZF.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerard</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondcoding.com/2008/07/05/zend-framework-where-do-you-want-to-go-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-238</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thislab.com/?p=41#comment-238</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The documentation is often outdated, sometimes inaccurate (might be typo) and most importantly, &lt;b&gt;very difficult to find specific information&lt;/b&gt;. The funny thing is, often than not I still need to rely on Google or some other external sources to find necessary information.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Couldn&#039;t agree more.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I think it is silly to call the current Zend Framework version 1.5. I mean, come on, where are the basic features such as a pagination?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Again, couldn&#039;t agree more.


Zend framework is still my framework of choice, though, i&#039;ve never used or tested any other framework. It looks the part, but if documentation continues to be bad it will reflect of the framework itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The documentation is often outdated, sometimes inaccurate (might be typo) and most importantly, <b>very difficult to find specific information</b>. The funny thing is, often than not I still need to rely on Google or some other external sources to find necessary information.</p></blockquote>
<p>Couldn&#8217;t agree more.</p>
<blockquote><p>I think it is silly to call the current Zend Framework version 1.5. I mean, come on, where are the basic features such as a pagination?</p></blockquote>
<p>Again, couldn&#8217;t agree more.</p>
<p>Zend framework is still my framework of choice, though, i&#8217;ve never used or tested any other framework. It looks the part, but if documentation continues to be bad it will reflect of the framework itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Wu</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondcoding.com/2008/07/05/zend-framework-where-do-you-want-to-go-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Wu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 07:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thislab.com/?p=41#comment-237</guid>
		<description>@Bill, I think if you spend more time you&#039;d find that ZF certainly do have its advantages, whether or not they&#039;ll justify the use is another story. :)

@Eran: Thanks for sharing your comments with us! I agree with most of your experience except for the mention of the DB abstraction class. Although that could be my own problem. :)

@Steve: Thanks for sharing your opinion too, I appreciate it. And it&#039;s good to see comments from different perspective. Although, how you believe a paginator is a gimmick is beyond me. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bill, I think if you spend more time you&#8217;d find that ZF certainly do have its advantages, whether or not they&#8217;ll justify the use is another story. :)</p>
<p>@Eran: Thanks for sharing your comments with us! I agree with most of your experience except for the mention of the DB abstraction class. Although that could be my own problem. :)</p>
<p>@Steve: Thanks for sharing your opinion too, I appreciate it. And it&#8217;s good to see comments from different perspective. Although, how you believe a paginator is a gimmick is beyond me. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondcoding.com/2008/07/05/zend-framework-where-do-you-want-to-go-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-236</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thislab.com/?p=41#comment-236</guid>
		<description>The last thing ZF needs is a full blown Rails style ORM implementation. Theres enough nievity and downright miss-information out there currently about MVC model implementations without encouraging further confusion within another popular framework. The vast majority of ORM solutions create unwanted dependancies and promote poor practices, they do no favours for PHPs OO progress.

Equally, since when was a paginator an essential part of a framework? A minor gimick type feature at best - however useful.

Frameworks should promote and assist with best practice implementations by providing flexible constructs to work within. ZF largely achieves this with its loosly coupled approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last thing ZF needs is a full blown Rails style ORM implementation. Theres enough nievity and downright miss-information out there currently about MVC model implementations without encouraging further confusion within another popular framework. The vast majority of ORM solutions create unwanted dependancies and promote poor practices, they do no favours for PHPs OO progress.</p>
<p>Equally, since when was a paginator an essential part of a framework? A minor gimick type feature at best &#8211; however useful.</p>
<p>Frameworks should promote and assist with best practice implementations by providing flexible constructs to work within. ZF largely achieves this with its loosly coupled approach.</p>
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		<title>By: Eran Galperin</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondcoding.com/2008/07/05/zend-framework-where-do-you-want-to-go-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-235</link>
		<dc:creator>Eran Galperin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thislab.com/?p=41#comment-235</guid>
		<description>I have been using ZF extensively since version 0.2.0 and it&#039;s my framework of choice still. However, I feel that since the first official release of version 1.0 a lot of bloat was added and framework development took a turn for the worse. Components like viewRenderer and the Layout view helper were just introducing more levels of complexity and sometime annoyances instead of building on the strong foundation that the framework had.

I still feel that the framework gives me a lot of production ready components that saved me a great deal of time over the years and helped me form a much more structured application design. The DB abstraction classes are top-notch, the MVC components are overall very good (aside from what I mentioned), Zend_Mail is also useful and the list goes on.

I think the ZF was an important addition to the framework selection for PHP, as an intermediary between Cake and code-igniter. Hopefully version 2.0 will scratch plenty of what&#039;s wrong with the current version and expand on what works well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been using ZF extensively since version 0.2.0 and it&#8217;s my framework of choice still. However, I feel that since the first official release of version 1.0 a lot of bloat was added and framework development took a turn for the worse. Components like viewRenderer and the Layout view helper were just introducing more levels of complexity and sometime annoyances instead of building on the strong foundation that the framework had.</p>
<p>I still feel that the framework gives me a lot of production ready components that saved me a great deal of time over the years and helped me form a much more structured application design. The DB abstraction classes are top-notch, the MVC components are overall very good (aside from what I mentioned), Zend_Mail is also useful and the list goes on.</p>
<p>I think the ZF was an important addition to the framework selection for PHP, as an intermediary between Cake and code-igniter. Hopefully version 2.0 will scratch plenty of what&#8217;s wrong with the current version and expand on what works well.</p>
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		<title>By: bill</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondcoding.com/2008/07/05/zend-framework-where-do-you-want-to-go-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-234</link>
		<dc:creator>bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thislab.com/?p=41#comment-234</guid>
		<description>ZF was a huge let down.

If I wanted to program in Java, I would.  ZF brought me back to the days of the bloated behemoth that Java Frameworks were (or small-medium web based apps).

I looked at it for about 5 minutes, laughed, then forgot about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ZF was a huge let down.</p>
<p>If I wanted to program in Java, I would.  ZF brought me back to the days of the bloated behemoth that Java Frameworks were (or small-medium web based apps).</p>
<p>I looked at it for about 5 minutes, laughed, then forgot about it.</p>
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